Your Telco owes you $1,000
May 14th, 2006 . by JTk . Tweet This!Update: Judge to decide on AT&T spying suit
If your telephone company is one of the companies that decided to take financial compensation from the federal government in exchange for illegally proving your records to them it seems to me that they owe you $1,000. Now IANAL but this seems pretty damn clear cut to me.
The Stored Wire and Electronic Communications and Transactional Records Access, Section 2703(c) outlines exactly five reasons that a phone company can disclose your records to the fed:
a warrant
a court order
the customer’s consent
for telemarketing enforcement
administrative subpoena
Keep in mind that the NSA does not have subpoena power and it is easy to see that not only is your federal government breaking the law by stripping you of your expectation of privacy in your papers and effects but that the Telcos are breaking the law by supplying this info to the Fed.
Section 2707 of the Communications Act says that the phone company are liable for $1000 per individual violation of the Act and outlines a private right of action to any customer “aggrieved by any violation.”
So there you go, a clear cut explanation of why your phone company ( unless you are lucky enough to be a Qwest customer ) owes you $1,000. If there is one thing that big corporations understand is profit and loss - I think handing out millions of thousand dollar checks will get their attention.
JTK - thank you. You saved me a ton of time looking up these laws.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
JD! Hey thanks for stopping by. Yea, I was trying to do that math with the number of customers, different companies, etc. - and well, you know me and math…
There seems to be some question as to if it is per customer or per instance. If it is per customer it is prolly just in the billions, but if it is per incident….
May 15th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
And I was thinking that the telcos can keep my grand if they promise to keep the net neutral for the next 200 years.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:28 pm
Well at least neutral until I am no longer drawing breath. I figure if I can fight the fight that long then someone else can take over.
May 17th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
There won’t be many people who actually take steps and claim that money, most of them will be too afraid of consequences..
May 19th, 2006 at 8:47 am
i realized that a while ago, but how do we actually go about -claiming- this money? knowing that they owe it to us is one thing, but actually getting it is a totally different issue. do we have to issue a suit, or can we join the EFF’s ongoing suit? and how do we know that our specific number was released? Verizon refused to comment as to whose number was released, citing security issues.
May 19th, 2006 at 9:34 am
We’ve already seen that the current Administration is willing to quash these lawsuits and that they have the power to do so by simply claiming that the investigation necessary to prove that the companies turned over records would reveal state secrets. This will go nowhere and not because people are afraid to pursue it, but because they won’t succeed.
May 19th, 2006 at 9:35 am
yea but where are the instructions on how to collect?
May 19th, 2006 at 9:38 am
If enough of us stand up and demand action - there is nothing the government can do… as long as the military/police stand down. Look at what happened over in France - they raised their voices and things happened.
We need to act now, because Congress won’t act and November is a long time to wait…
May 19th, 2006 at 9:42 am
So where can i get a list of the companies in question?
May 19th, 2006 at 9:54 am
But, how do we act? Writing my congressman never seems to do anything. Maybe someone can start a website.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:05 am
Too bad I’m a Qwest customer.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:16 am
How do you go about fileing for this?
May 19th, 2006 at 10:24 am
Re: Instructions to Collect
A friendly lawyer will soon contact you and promise to fight a class action lawsuit for you for $500 of your $1000. No matter what happens then you can be sure that lawyers will rake in the dough. They make zillions and the telcos will be severely hurt and maybe think twice about doing this kind of dirty work for future governments.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:25 am
Verizon DID NOT GIVE OUT RECORDS!!!
May 19th, 2006 at 10:32 am
Where can we actually get ongoing information on this subject matter and a list of the phone companies involved? — so we cannot ask for and recieve which numbers that they gave to the feds!!! WTF?!?! They gave them to the feds against our rights!!! We are getting F’d in the A if you ask me… and I think another person on here was right, nothing will happen because the gov is acting ABOVE THE F ING LAW!!! I am beginning to wish i lived in Canada…. never thought that would happen. F Bush and the NSA, there needs to be a website for people to protest this, and get together and make change. If enough people speak up they have to do something…
May 19th, 2006 at 10:37 am
Too bad the “records” in that sentence doesn’t encompass the specific data the NSA was collecting.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:37 am
I’m glad nikster brought up this point, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HIRE AN ATTORNEY TO CLAIM YOUR $1000!
Sorry for the caps but it had to be said. I’m sure that there will be tons of lawyers out there just itching to claim part of your money. Simply send your telephone company a bill with the Act inclosed and the applicable parts highlighted. You should also send a copy to their legal department at the same time.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:38 am
And to see the statute :
http://www.cybercrime.gov/ECPA2701_2712.htm
Do note that their is a section providing for exclusions when it falls under section 2709, (title below)
2709. Counterintelligence access to telephone toll and transactional records
Could get interesting though. Anyone have a simple way to file/collect yet?
May 19th, 2006 at 10:39 am
Hey jayjay - I don’t want to burst your bubble but the Fed has now given companies permission to lie to their customers if it is in the name of “national security”
You may want to read Verizon’s press release very carefully…
May 19th, 2006 at 10:40 am
Sorry Stephen, but the Act clearly says:
A governmental entity may require a provider of electronic communication service or remote computing service to disclose a record or other information pertaining to a subscriber to or customer of such service (not including the contents of communications) only when the governmental entity—
(A) obtains a warrant issued using the procedures described in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure by a court with jurisdiction over the offense under investigation or equivalent State warrant;
(B) obtains a court order for such disclosure under subsection (d) of this section;
(C) has the consent of the subscriber or customer to such disclosure; or [1]
(D) submits a formal written request relevant to a law enforcement investigation concerning telemarketing fraud for the name, address, and place of business of a subscriber or customer of such provider, which subscriber or customer is engaged in telemarketing (as such term is defined in section 2325 of this title); or
(E) seeks information under paragraph (2).
Especially the part about “or other information pertaining to a subscriber to or customer of such service (not including the contents of communications)” gets them in trouble
May 19th, 2006 at 10:42 am
Did Time Warner turn over records?
If so then let me know, so I can get busy.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:43 am
Lee - Alas, I am sure that you and Neil are correct. I wrote this with my tounge approaching my cheek.
Of course it does not matter what the law is when the people in charge of administering the law hold themselves above the law.
But it is still important to know what the law is so you know when the powers that be are acting contrary to said law.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:44 am
Looks like a class action suit waiting to happen. Sweet! Sign me up.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:47 am
Oh. By the way. Golden rule # 3. Those with the money, make the rules.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:48 am
That’s because JayJay works for Verizon, duh!!! It’s an attempt at social control, like what they do on college message boards in China, haha. (but true)
May 19th, 2006 at 10:48 am
Yea right…try to prove that they gave them records. Then try to prove that the NSA has the records. Good luck.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:50 am
Hey JAy go F your self. Do you really think people listen to you have phone sex with your grandmother? you would have to give them some reason to look at your records or even listen to a phone call. If oyu dont like the government go ahead move to canada and take your friends too. We dont need people like you in this country. Yes it a shame they gave the information out but how many people is it really hurting? None because its really only catching people that are doing things that they shouldnt be doing
May 19th, 2006 at 10:50 am
Bullet - That ole “I aint doing nothing wrong so I have nothing to worry about” line is getting tired.
It will be a different story once our new overloards decide that YOUR vices are now a threat.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:53 am
hmmmm, I beleave that the government only took the records IF you called out of the country.
If there are alot of people sueing then it will go to class action. and you will be locky to get $1.00. Remember the Tobaco law suits. The winners were only the Lawyers. 1 lawyer made 1 billion dollars……Makes you want to become a lawyer (thief that is) . The only thing that will become of this is to make the sleazy lawyers rich!. If the government wants to look at my phone records when I call out of the country - go ahead. I dont call out of the country!!!!!
May 19th, 2006 at 11:01 am
Good luck proving wrondoing, good luck collecting any money if you do prove it, and good luck not getting wet if you stand facing the wind when you urinate.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:03 am
No - it looks like the fed are making a huge db of every call made - regadless of if it is internal or external.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:03 am
But its true, and the truth hurts doesnt it. And not once did I say “I aint doing nothing wrong so I have nothing to worry about”. Would it matter if oyu didnt know about it? No, infact you would go along with your daily life and not have a concern in the world, or worry about paying your rent or mortagage or other bills. I bet the NSA has recorded more phone calls that we care to ever know about. I am sure that many government agencies have done things that we wouldnt want to know about because it would terrify us and its best that we dont know. The government is trying to protect the US from many differnet trheats and if we have to tell everyone what we are doing then the enemy can find another way to communicate. Its ridiculous that people whine over a detail that doesnt really concern them. Who cares if they here me talk to my wife or my father or my best friend. I bet you feel that SSI and Welfare are not doing the job it was made to do and prisoners should have AC and cable TV and weights to lift while in jail. These people should get off of there ass and do somehting but they realize they can get more money for nothing if they have more children and sit on thier ass instaed of taking a job that pays. A little hard work never hurt anyone.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:04 am
No Bullet, the truth is that this violates the law. It violates the constitution.
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
May 19th, 2006 at 11:06 am
Additionally, Bullet, if you really think that the Fed has YOUR best interests at heart and are trying to protect YOU then I think that you are at leat a little naive.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:08 am
how do we know if our telephone company released this information? does this also include all cell phone companies as well as home phones?
May 19th, 2006 at 11:11 am
Hey TelcoTired - I agree with the sentiment you have expressed however, just because we cannot win this fight does not mean that it is not worth fighting.
The powers that be are counting on the sheeple to not question authority. I think that it is our duty as Americans to speak up when the Constitution in threatened.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:12 am
“Class Action” law suits usually only make the law firm any sizable amonut of money when there is a large number participating in the class action suit.
The question is how can we organize a huge number of people to not only resolve this issue with telcos but another huge issue also. This issue would be worth way more then the $500.00 to $1000.00 every one is entitiled to. There is a huge amount of money that needs to be returned to telco customers from erroronious charges and fees right now. The phone companies refuse to give the customer their CSR and they are the customers property. The CSR’s have the information that is needed to determine the erroronious fees and charges and many of us know how to read them. Some of the fees and charges can go way back meaning the customer may have a very large refund due them.
Telcos will not co-operate with customers or their services who are trying to get their billing straightened out. Telcos want to charge an outragious price per page copy of past bills if you request them. 3 to 10 dollars per page…
We, as a society must start to monitor utility services ourselves and get the government OUT.
If I could just show you what I am talking about.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:14 am
Hey Yo - I couldn’t find the original USA Today story, but read this to get up to speed.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:19 am
Bullet, they say ignorence is bliss… happy?
May 19th, 2006 at 11:28 am
Screw you. There is no crime committed by the phone companies in handing over those numbers. They don’t owe you shit you stupid bastards.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:32 am
Hey “Me” Obviously you did not read the post ( or your reading comprehension skills are very poor ) ‘cauze I posted exactly what laws they broke.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:35 am
Holy cow there are some money-hungry and paranoid people out there…
Yes, you’re right, freakazoids… The government wishes you nothing but discontent. I can’t believe that a government computer now know how many times a month I call my mother. How outrageous. Next thing you know they’ll want to know exactly how much I earn each year!
Boy, what an outrage. I am so entitled to my $1000. Where do I sign up with my money-grubbing little fingers?
Oh, and regarding the Martin Niemöller quote… Who are they coming for? The bad guys? Oh damn.
Grow up, stop whining, and stop feeling like you’re owed something everytime the media tells you you’ve been offended.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:35 am
Hey Observer - I am not offended when the media tells me that I am. I am offended when OUR goverment breaks laws and gives it’s collective finger to the Constitution.
Maybe you should grow up and stand up for the Constituion.
And if you think that Bush Co is only interested in “coming after” the “bad guys” then you are correct - if bad guys are defined as any individual or group that does not agree with Bush Co.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:42 am
RE:Observer
the Telcos are the ones with the money-grubbing fingers. I’m guessing your associated with one of them.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:49 am
The key words being “aggrieved by any violation.” Try proving you’ve been aggrieved and deserve the $1000…that’s when you’ll need a lawyer…remember the legislators are lawyers too…
May 19th, 2006 at 11:49 am
AndyB918 - Good point, and agreed. I totally understand that I am not going to be able to call up BellSouth and say “You screwed me, please send me $1000″.
All I can do is tilt at the windmills..
May 19th, 2006 at 11:53 am
There will be class-action lawsuits that arise because of this. Keep your eyes out for letters or other info on how to sign up as a party. The lawyers will end up with the lion’s share of the money, but the real point is to punish bad companies.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:57 am
RE:Observer
There’s a reason the laws are on the books, and there’s a reason we have a 4th amendment.
I can’t stand the argument that the government means no harm. If that’s the case, why not get rid of that pesky 4th amendment anyway.. i mean “grow up, stop whining” when the cops walk into your house uninvited. What have you got to hide, right??
May 19th, 2006 at 12:04 pm
Too bad a lawyer probably costs more than $1,000.
May 19th, 2006 at 12:11 pm
It’s not about offense — it’s about the law and that’s pretty unequivocal. What the telcos did was not legal. It may be difficult to prove in court, now that the cloak of ‘national security’ has been thrown over it, but it was still illegal by everything I’ve seen. I’m all for protecting national security but doesn’t it ring hollow if we’re breaking our own laws in order to protect national security — what’s left to protect if we’re sacrificing one of the core parts of America — the rule of law?
May 19th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
notoffended - well said. It strikes me that The United States could defeat the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany without the patriot act, Total Information Awareness, etc.
May 19th, 2006 at 12:28 pm
A class action lawsuit was filed against AT&T on January 31, 2006. See the following article:
http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/
If you are an AT&T customer but don’t know if your records were given the NSA, don’t worry, this is the beauty of the class action lawsuit. It won’t cost you a dime or a minute of concern and you get your piece of the settlement if you win. The lawyer appointed to the class does all the work. He/she will do discovery and mail you a letter if you are part of the class. If you want to be part of the class, you usually do nothing. It is only if you want to opt out of the class that you have to respond. Opting out gives you the chance to go after AT&T on your own or with your own attorney, but you will not get a piece of the settlement if the class wins.
Usually, the lawyer gets 40% of the settlement as his contingent fee. That is because he/she fronts all of the money for the trial. The 40% covers discovery and filing costs and his/her fees and those of his/her staff. Also, if you get nothing, he/she gets nothing. His/her bill does not get split up amongst the class members. If I have not sold you on why the lawyer gets 40%, it is because you have nothing to lose while this case may drag on for three years. The lawyer may front money for three years and get no return in the end. Lawyers do not win big in every class action, therefore, they need to cover those losses when they do win.
May 19th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
Eurasia has ever been our friend and ally. We must now turn our eyes towards Eastasia!
May 19th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
Allright Jace - thanks for stopping by
May 19th, 2006 at 12:32 pm
This is why I am a member of EFF, and I encourage others concerned about this to donate and/or become a member. It is a non-profit group, and your donations are what pay for those lawyer fees Julie mentioned.
http://www.eff.org
May 19th, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Looks like this may be all moot. Bush signed an executive order two weeks ago to give the Director of National Intelligence, John Negroponte, the ability to permit companies to conceal their dealings with the NSA. So even if there is a suit, it is likely they will use this section of the Securities Exchange Act to get around it.
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/17/new-executive-order/
May 19th, 2006 at 12:43 pm
Just send them a bill with the above communication laws ( would be nice if someone put together a package with form letter and invoice). After 90 days when they don’t respond. Get their business id and file a claim in small clams court. total cost to you about 70 dollars depending on your local court costs. If they don’t show you win. If they do show it costs them about a thousand dollars in lawyer fees.
May 19th, 2006 at 12:45 pm
pleasethink - that is exactly why the telcos are denying that they did this, but it does not mean that we, the people, should let them off the hook.
To me that just makes this twice as bad. First they break the law, then they issue an executive order ( not a law, and not part of the constitution for sure ) to cover their asses for breaking the law.
May 19th, 2006 at 12:50 pm
I love Quest for their cojones !
I think they earned much more than $1,000/ea. -possibly being paid by others. They have my
respect, my business and my loyalty; and
that of anyone I meet. Sometimes doing the right
thing requires ‘pouches’; …good on you, Que….l
May 19th, 2006 at 12:55 pm
I don’t get it, why the big fuss? If this wouldn’t have been leaked, no one would know, life would go on, except for those that are doing wrongful acts. I just feel it’s another reason for everyone to lash out again Bush. I’m not a registered voter, it doesn’t matter unless your in the electoral college anywho. My .02
May 19th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
Paranoid.USA - It matter because the Bush administration is breaking the laws they swore to protect. Once a goverment starts taking away your rights it is very hard to get those rights back.
The 4th amendment matters to me, it obviously mattered to the founding fathers too.
May 19th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
ok so they broke the law, how do i get my money?
May 19th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
Every one… except those with the telcos and the few Ican only guess have no brains…
They come in blue, red, green and yellow and most of you probably have those… but for us that actually have to pay these telco bills, over charges and all, plus have to deal with the lack of integrity and privacy we are entiltled to… we must have chrome. ( chrome b….)
If our Government did their job keeping imigrants and illegals tracked properly from the get go all of us would not have to be shook down. Travel the globe see if any where else you can get away with a fraction of what illegals do in this country. We all pay and we all should not have to.
Where is the chrome… that is the crowd I want to
address this matter with. Do we need a web site?
May 19th, 2006 at 2:06 pm
Oh, yeah. A middle Tennessee man has already filed suit against BellSouth. Verison has also had a class-action suit filed against them. BellSouth sent (from their legal department) a demand that USA Today retract the story, claiming that it was untrue and threatning to file libel charges if the retraction was not issued. This should be an interesting next few weeks.
May 19th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
the Records in question were most likly call detail records. the same info the Bells bill from. what number call what number and for how long and what time.
May 19th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
Based on my phone company record keeping skills (my bill is always wrong one way or another) I don’t know how accurate the records they gave really are. Wouldn’t it be great if the fed sued for getting bad info from the Telco’s?
May 19th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Did you know Qwest is associated with The Carlyal Group. No respect there
May 19th, 2006 at 4:02 pm
Let’s hope someone brings this up during the ongoing investigation, and that that a competent judge gets to spend some time thinking about it (well, let’s hope that happens if it is, in fact, a real possibility).
May 19th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
Who cares if you get the money…
The point is to punish them.
Harass them. Cost them money….
File suit..they’ll have to show up in court.
It doesn’t make much difference if just one
person does it. But just think if thousands did…
At the very least it would make a very interesting news story..
May 19th, 2006 at 7:15 pm
Hey Mike…
Get this: We care about the money. If thousands can do that why can’t we get thousands together and fix the problem not just handle a sympton.
By the way, if we cost any business money and time what do you think they do?
I’ll tell you so you won’t have to guess.. they raise there fees to their customers to pick up those costs..
No business will let a problem eat into their profits..dummy.
Now, I do want the money and the other money refunded that I have paid to the telcos for erroronious fees and charges. They stole that money and shoulkd have to pay it back. Again, that $500.00 to $1000.00 is chump change compared to the over charges we have all been forced to pay.
We must come together and demand our refunds and changes to our bills for future savings…
That would be a Headline Story
May 20th, 2006 at 10:03 am
shit i’ll take a free 1000$… is sprint on the list? and if say sprint and verizon were on the list… would i be getting 2k? woot… that’s a new laptop
either way..
May 20th, 2006 at 10:30 pm
I agree with Nina and Mike. We, as in the people on this site right now, need to set up a webpage with info on how to sign up for a class action lawsuit. Then someone needs to digg it and hopefully it will top page and everyone and their mother will join.
May 20th, 2006 at 10:33 pm
I feel My privacy being violated without my consent is worth much more than $1000. Oh I had to turn down my privacy settings on explorer to type this comment on this site
May 22nd, 2006 at 7:23 pm